UC Berkeley Chancellor Carol Christ: ‘I always felt like a pioneer’

Anne Brice: How do you define feminism, and do you consider yourself feminists? Do you think that what it means has changed?

Carol Clover: I certainly regard myself as a feminist and long have, since the 60s. What it means to me is simply equal rights and equal access. And, of course, the emphasis has changed over time. It’s still changing, and sometimes I feel like I’m not fully in sync. But basically, at heart, I would say I’m a feminist.

Christ: Yeah, I would say the same thing. I would also define feminism as commitment to gender equity. But it’s become much more complicated, I think. The term people often use — intersectionality — the really complex relationship of feminism to categories of race and class on the one hand, and to sexual orientation, indeed, even gender identity itself, has really complicated and changed the movement, if you can even call it a movement.

I’ve often been dismayed that women students don’t like to be called feminists, don’t regard themselves as feminists. Though if you ask, “Do you believe in equal rights? Gender equity?” They say, “Of course.” Like it’s a given.

Carol Christ speaking to reporters in 1993 at a press conference

Christ speaks to reporters at a UC Berkeley press conference in 1993. Christ says it’s important that a leader has a vision of where they’re going; is a good listener; has moral courage; is willing to make decisions; and can change direction when necessary. (UC Berkeley photo by Jane Scherr)

But they associate feminism with a certain kind of emotional register. They think of it as, you know, man-hating, bra-burning, angry temperament, which was never my temperament. I know it was part of the feminist movement, but it was never what feminism meant to me.

Anne Brice: What do you think makes a good leader?

Carol Christ: I think there’s not a single characteristic that makes a good leader. I think there are many different ways of being a leader. There are some capacities that I think are really important in being a leader.

One is to have a vision of where you’re going. I always say to people I mentor or counsel, “Think of four to five things that you want to accomplish, and figure out how you’re going to accomplish them.” You have to be able to share authority as a leader, because in any complex organization, you can’t do things just by yourself. You depend on other people to try to get them done. You have to be a good listener to be a leader. You have to have moral courage to be a leader.

For a job like this, there are certain elements of the job that are very public and presentational, and you have to be comfortable projecting yourself in gatherings of various sorts.

And I do think decisiveness is one of the important characteristics of being a leader. Being willing to make decisions. But I think also being willing to say, or admit, that you’re wrong or to change direction is important as well.

There was an op-ed that was enormously encouraging to me by Frank Bruni in the New York Times, in which he was talking about women of a certain age in positions of authority. It was right after Nancy Pelosi had done such a masterful job of handling Trump.

And he was taking issue with the view that was certainly articulated in relationship to Nancy Pelosi — she’s too old for this job — by saying age brings certain strengths. And you see it in judgement and maturity and wealth of experience. And since I’m about to become 75, I took this much to heart.

“I’m much less frightened than I was when I was younger,” says Christ. “It’s much easier for me to speak my mind. I realize I have a position that encourages me to speak my mind. But to me, it just seems like there’s no time to waste and so you need to cut to the chase quickly.” (UC Berkeley photo by Brittany Hosea-Small)

Anne Brice: We’ve talked about how you’ve seen things change in the past 50 years. Where are things now compared to when you started in the academy? And what still needs to happen?

Christ: Interestingly, I think at this moment, looking at the #MeToo movement, we might say, “Oh, things are worse than they’ve ever been.” I actually think women’s willingness to come forward and say, “This happened to me, and it was wrong,” rather than feeling ashamed and hiding it and thinking, “I must have done something to invite this,” is a mark of progress. But whenever you hear these stories, you realize how many worlds there are in which there is still an enormous imbalance in power in relationship to gender.

I think also lots of the issues have to do with race and class and wealth inequality. So in some sense, I think that women in the academy — although it’s not true that there are not any problems in the academy in relation to gender — it’s one of the places where there’s been a lot of progress.

Christ has two pieces of advice for the next generation of women at Berkeley: Get in touch with your authentic self and find a vocation that you enjoy. “If something isn’t working for you, stop it and try something else,” says Christ. “I think one of the most profound gratifications we have is to find work that matters to you, whatever that work is.” (UC Berkeley photo by Brittany Hosea-Small)

Anne Brice: What’s your advice for women now — undergraduate and graduate students, and other women at Berkeley?

Carol Christ: One of the things that surprised and delighted me when I went to Smith was how the range of female behavior seemed so much wider to me than it did at Berkeley. And I’m thinking, “This is crazy.” I mean, Berkeley’s not exactly a place of shrinking violets. It has a pretty Bohemian culture. And yet, the fact that this was an all-women’s community freed women to be unconventional in their expression of themselves. So women were louder, they were gigglier. That really was a profound realization.

And, I guess I have two pieces of advice. Get in touch with that authentic self, whatever it is. And the other is, I think it’s so important for everybody to find a vocation and to not feel like you have to get it right in your first job after college. If something isn’t working for you, stop it and try something else. I think one of the most profound gratifications we have is to find work that matters to you, whatever that work is.

Carol Clover: Yeah, I think that’s extremely good advice. Do what you want to do.

Narration: That was a conversation between UC Berkeley Chancellor Carol Christ and Professor Emerita Carol Clover. This is Fiat Vox. I’m Anne Brice.

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UC Berkeley Chancellor Carol Christ: ‘I always felt like a pioneer’

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